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Finally finished 2nd guitar http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=3543	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Skip Beach [ Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:03 am ]
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Hi everyone, Here's my recently finished #2. It's a VERY loose copy of an early 1800's Martinez classical. I made copious stupid mistakes & it took way too long - 8 months. You fine people on this forum have been a great inspiration & help in the long & difficult birth of this project. Thank you for all of your generous sharing of experience & knowledge. Anyway, here's the long & short: Engleman spruce top (spray-dyed) Sapele back & sides mahogany neck bois d'rose fingerboard maple peg overlay & rose Madagasgar rosewood bindings Madagasgar frets (just the three on the top) Indian rosewood bridge 24.75" scale This little guitar would irritate a traditionalist. The neck bolts on and the construction methods are modern. I know the plastic & metal uke pegs are not typical of a 19th century classical but I can always buy a peg shaper & reamer later. These were MUCH cheaper and they work great. This is not a client guitar - it's for my own use. The rose is a press-fit piece of maple sawn & carved & sanded into shape. The sound port on the upper bout sounds very nice & present. The bridge is typical of a lute-style bridge - it has no saddle so the tension is all longitudinal (parallel to the neck). As a result, this guitar has an overall soft voice that's more attack than sustain ... typical of (you guessed it) a lute. I like the sound but I wouldn't suggest it for concertizing. Nice bass for such a small body & kind of soft "plunky" trebles. The back is a regular two-piece but has shallow grooves that are filled with gold acrylic paint, then finished over. I like this look, sort of a faux multi-piece back. The back is ladder braced. The VERY thin top has three fan braces in the lower bout & ladder braces above & below the soundhole. No bridge patch as this uses low tension strings. The plan was found in GAL's Big Red Book #3. The finish is Minwax wipe-on polyurethane (very non-traditional) that is yet to be polished & buffed out. I'll wait a few weeks. All in all I like the sound & the vibe of this little fella. Now, on to building # 3 !! Thanks for looking, I welcome comments and/or questions of any kind. Skip

Author:	Dave Rector [ Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:13 am ]
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Skip, that is really a cool looking guitar. The soundhole rose looks great! I like your side port design, much better than a plain round hole. I guess I like everything about it. Nice job!

Author:	old man [ Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:17 am ]
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Looks good. Very interesting elements, I've never seen frets done that way. I like the peghead shape too. Skip, I'd like to see the finish after you are levelled and buffed. I've thought about trying minwax also. Ronold man38641.7634027778

Author:	Don A [ Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:17 am ]
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Who cares if its not completely traditional....it looks great . This is YOUR guitar and YOUR design elements, thats what sets builders apart from each other. I also like your side ports and the back really does look like multi-piece. It kind of threw me for a loop when I saw the soundboard inlayed into the fretboard but with low tension it will probably never need a reset anyway (maybe this is the answer to setting the neck angle. Keep it up Skip, I'm looking forward to seeing the next one.

Author:	Shane Neifer [ Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:39 am ]
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Great Job Skip!! That fretwork on the soundhole rose looks like a ton of work. The entire instrument looks wonderful and as Don said, it will help having a few of those types of instruments around when you start selling traditional instruments, they keep people curious! Thanks for sharing Shane

Author:	KiwiCraig [ Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:45 am ]
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It's a fantastic looking guitar Skip!. I just love it. The rose has certainly got me in! I'd tune the "G" down a semi and have it sitting on my lap for a considerable amount of time!! Great work Skip! Must have been fun to build. Regards and congrats ,KiwiCraig

Author:	RussellR [ Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:07 am ]
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Skip That is really, really beautiful, it looks real authentic. Bet Colin S will love it

Author:	Anthony Z [ Sun Oct 16, 2005 12:08 pm ]
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WOW! Beautiful original design....very impressive.

Author:	Ron Priest [ Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:20 pm ]
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VERY NICE!! And only your second guitar. Great job, Skip. Very interesting guitar. Where did the concept come from for this beautiful piece of work? What are you building for number 3? Keep up the good work look forward to seeing #3!!

Author:	Steve Kinnaird [ Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:43 pm ]
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Wow, Skip, that is most impressive. I'm interested in your finish. I used that Minwax wipe-on recently for a dulcimer, but didn't get the build that you seem to have achieved. I'd like to see an "after" shot when you've done some rubbing and buffing. Great job, Steve

Author:	Bobc [ Sun Oct 16, 2005 4:55 pm ]
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Skip that is one fine looking guitar. Geez these first and second efforts are getting better and better.

Author:	Dave White [ Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:10 pm ]
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Skip, Simply gorgeous!!! I love curvy guitars.

Author:	Colin S [ Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:35 pm ]
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Skip, Great work I just love it. Aren't these old style instruments fun they seem to have much more character than Martin clones. I can't believe it's only your second guitar, I wouldn't have had the courage to do that for my second! The rose is great they are very satisfying to carve aren't they. The traditional wood of course for fitted-in roses were the fruit woods Pear, apple etc with a parchment layer underneath, but I see no reason not to use maple. I don't think it matters that it is a bolt on neck many of these old guitars had pegged or screwed on necks and this is just a modern version of that. Ladder bracing with fans below the bridge in the lower bout goes all the way back to Venere in at least the latter part of the 17th century and has stood the test of time it produces a very sensitive top. Multi piece backs are easy to make and can often be made with the offcuts when larger backs are trimmed. With a contrasting veneer sandwiched in during gluing they are as strong as the usual double back. That's the way we make lute backs, except they are made on a form and each slat is bent individually and glued onto the next slat with the veneer in between. Please though change the tuners! Nice fruit wood pegs would make this really look great and they are very easy to make and install. Have you tried Nylgut strings for it? they would give it a very authentic tone. I've got a copy of the 1700 Stradivarius 5-course guitar part built and another 8-course lute part way done including the rose carved (That's your next challenge to carve the rose direct into the top) I bet it's the guitar you'll have beside your chair to pick up and have the odd little twiddle. Right the rest of you, lets have some more "interesting" guitars like this one. Since I've been away this little guitar has made me long more than anything to get back into my shop and get building. Great effort Skip. Colin

Author:	Steve Kinnaird [ Sun Oct 16, 2005 10:12 pm ]
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[QUOTE=Colin S] Right the rest of you, lets have some more "interesting" guitars like this one. Colin[/QUOTE] Oooh, a challenge! Look what you've done to us, Skip! Colin--"...the odd little twiddle"? Most expressive. SteveSteve Kinnaird38642.3013425926

Author:	Skip Beach [ Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:04 am ]
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Hi again, Thank you for all the kind words of encouragement. I was unsure how this atypical, "very old school" looking classical might be received. Old Man Ron & Steve K.: The minwax gloss poly was very simple to use by wiping on with old t-shirt material. I sanded level with 400 & 600 grit every third or fourth coat. The last few coats were thinned even further with turpentine. Maybe 20-25 thin coats total (a few were sanded off I'm sure) to get this build. Steve, this was all after pore filling the Sapele with Z-poxey & sanding back to almost bare wood - maybe that made the finish coats build faster. Some days just 2 wiped on poly coats, other days as many as 3 coats. It took a while. It was fun though. It's on to polishing & buffing in a few weeks. Ron P.: The basic idea came from wanting a nylon stringed guitar as I've never owned one. I liked the shape & size of the 1816? Martinez plan in the GAL's Big Red Book #3. The rose design came from Elena dal Cortivo's beautiful web site and most of the other design ideas were directly copied from a picture of the 1701 Stradivari guitar known as "The Rawlins". With these varied influences, it's a mongrel for sure! Also Ron since you asked, The next guitar (in the planning stages now) will be a steelstring ... Gibson L-O shape from the 1920's with black walnut back & sides and dark cedar top. Maybe with a cross between Art Nouveau & Craftsman design details. That's "Craftsman" architectural & craft design - NOT the Sears tools. Colin: I was hoping you wouldn't be offended by the modern building methods & loose mishmash of design influences as I know you have built a few "real" period instruments before. Thanks for realizing the spirit of the thing ... fun & curiosity! The uke tuners are really sort of ugly & out-of-place ... even to my confused aesthetic sense, but I read a treatise on the difficulty of getting press-fit pegs just right & how important the perfect fit is & the use of peg grease, etc. It seemed like just too much of an additional challenge. I do hope to remedy that soon. I appreciate the string recommendation too - I'll look around the web for them. Thanks again for your gracious comments, but more importantly, thanks to all of you for selflessly sharing your skills & experience with everyone else here. This is a great community to belong to. SkipSkip Beach38642.3824421296

Author:	Colin S [ Mon Oct 17, 2005 12:24 am ]
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Skip, As I said a great little guitar, It contains the spirit of the instrument and for that you are to be congratulated. It is my aim now to have at least one historic instument on the go at any one time probably one lute, one early guitar and one modern steel string. (my current shcedule) pegs are available ready made in a variety of wood (though its fun making them and your in no hurry as the guitar is finished) but I thnk they would add so much. They are not difficult to fit with the right reamer and I have found thatordinary soft pencil lead graphite is fine for keeping them lubricated as long as you don't push them in too hard. I have used pure gut strings on my lutes so far but the next lute will have Nylguts so it will hold it's tune longer for me to pick up and just play without having to spend ten minutes tuning 19 strings with 1:1 pegs! Check this company for Nylgut stringsin the USA Aquila USA Colin

Author:	Colin S [ Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:14 am ]
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Skip, I knew I had some pictures on my laptop of this one. It's probably English made about 1780 so only about 20 years before your type. I was lucky enough to be able to help with the restoration of it a while ago. It sounded fantatstic when finished no doubt due to the 220 year old European spruce top! As you can see compared to your's you have really succeeded in capturing the essense of the age. ColinColin S38642.5122800926

Author:	Skip Beach [ Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:28 am ]
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Colin, That's a lovely old baroque guitar. Yes, I'm sure 220 year old European spruce sounds very smooth & sweet. I'm curious about the bridge on this instrument. It is obviously a pin bridge. Did it have a raised lip on the front edge acting as a short saddle? I'd read that bridge saddles were not typically used until the early 1820's - the beginning of the "Romantic guitar" age. Lutes, earlier baroque guitars & vilhuelas mostly used tie-on bridges with no saddle or saddle-like ridges as I understand it. The bridge patch/brace is an interesting functional combination too. I'd love to hear that beautiful old guitar sing! Thanks for the string link & the peg tuner encouragement. I will definately try real wooden pegs soon. Right now my guitar has LaBella 2001 light tension strings - nylon & silver wound cord. They're OK but I will certainly look into your string recommendation! All in all I'm glad that so many people seem to get the intent of my newest instrument - trying to "capture the essence" of guitar building in an earlier age. Thanks for commenting. Also, here's a picture of the Rawlins Strad used as a design inspiration ... Skip

Author:	BruceH [ Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:54 am ]
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Skip, Nice work! Let us know how that finish buffs out.

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